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How much Oil in Apron

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tjb

Terry
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#1
Hello, All.

Some of you have given me some very helpful advice on my Jet 1024P look-alike lathe (Kin Shin model KS3.5FK). Thanks.

The machine is GREAT, but I've come upon a nuisance issue. The apron has been slowly leaking oil, and it seems to be coming from the carriage feed handwheel assembly. I took it apart, added a plastic gasket in front of the gear, made a gasket, and reassembled using a silicone seal. Did that today and will let it cure overnight before adding oil; I suspect that's going to solve the problem. Two questions: 1. How much oil should the apron hold? I have a copy of the 1024 manual (thanks Mike), but I can't find where it gives this information. And 2. What type of oil? The manual says to use 30 wt non-detergent, but I'm inclined to use way oil. Any advice?

Regards,
Terry

P.S.: To all who gave me wise counsel on wiring the For/Rev drum switch, I'm still on hold. Wheat's in the bins, bales are in the barn, and I'm busy catching up on stuff that was put on hold. My friend, Andy, was over this weekend but didn't have enough time to look at the switch. I'm gone next weekend, so I probably won't get that fixed until the following weekend. The machine is running great, though, and I can live without the reverse until someone is in my shop who has actually done this before. I'll keep you posted.
 

tjb

Terry
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#2
Follow up on my question: Unlike the Jet (I think), the Kin Shin machine has no sight glass on the apron. That's why I have no frame of reference for how much oil it takes.

Regards,
Terry
 

tertiaryjim

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#3
You might have to look into the apron. That may require separating the apron and carriage.
Many of the lubrication instructions will require the oil level to be above the lowest shaft as though the machine had seals, which it doesn't and
the clearances will allow oil to follow the shaft to a pool of oil in the pan.
By looking into it you can set the oil level just below the lowest shaft or any point that can leak.
The gears must all be able to reach the oil or run with a gear that does reach the oil.
The shafts will lubricate from the oil as it drains down and travels the shaft.
Leak solved. OK you will still get some oil creep along the shafts.

Most machines I've used just use way oil in the apron.
I believe its has high pressure additives and additives to help it cling to a surface so it should cling to the gears and it has a good
viscosity for slower turning gearing which is under high pressure.
 

tjb

Terry
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#4
You might have to look into the apron. That may require separating the apron and carriage.
Many of the lubrication instructions will require the oil level to be above the lowest shaft as though the machine had seals, which it doesn't and
the clearances will allow oil to follow the shaft to a pool of oil in the pan.
By looking into it you can set the oil level just below the lowest shaft or any point that can leak.
The gears must all be able to reach the oil or run with a gear that does reach the oil.
The shafts will lubricate from the oil as it drains down and travels the shaft.
Leak solved. OK you will still get some oil creep along the shafts.

Most machines I've used just use way oil in the apron.
I believe its has high pressure additives and additives to help it cling to a surface so it should cling to the gears and it has a good
viscosity for slower turning gearing which is under high pressure.
Thanks, Jim.
When I first got this lathe, I went through the process you've suggested. I took the apron off, cleaned it, and added way oil so that I could visibly see it operate on my workbench. I understand what you mean about lower gears carrying oil to the upper gears and shafts. That's exactly how the apron functions. However, I have seen several posts here and in other blogs that talk about a 'site glass' on the apron. Since mine doesn't have one, I wanted to make sure the machine wasn't leaking down below a tolerable level. Everything seemed to work fine, but I didn't have a warm-fuzzy. I guess Yogi Berra's advice is best: If it ain't broke, don't break it.

I agree with you about using way oil instead of 30wt. I measured the amount of oil I took out before my modification, so I'll replace that same amount this morning.

Thanks again for your informative response.

Regards,
Terry
 

DAT510

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#5
Hi Terry,

The manual for the Grizzly Model of the Jet 1024/1236 lathe has some good lubrication info about the apron. Page 49

http://hobby-machinist.com/resources/grizzly-12x37-lathe-g9249-same-lathe-as-jet-1024-1236.3135/

Excerp below:
---------------
Apron Gearbox

Lubricant

iso 68 sAE 20W Bearing and gear lubricant

remove the oil plug on top of the apron shown in figure 84, add lubricant, then replace the oil plug. the apron gearbox reservoir holds approximately 3/4 of a pint of lubricant. Excess lubricant will leak from the front of the apron.

---------------
 

tjb

Terry
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#6
Hi Terry,

The manual for the Grizzly Model of the Jet 1024/1236 lathe has some good lubrication info about the apron. Page 49

http://hobby-machinist.com/resources/grizzly-12x37-lathe-g9249-same-lathe-as-jet-1024-1236.3135/

Excerp below:
---------------
Apron Gearbox

Lubricant

iso 68 sAE 20W Bearing and gear lubricant

remove the oil plug on top of the apron shown in figure 84, add lubricant, then replace the oil plug. the apron gearbox reservoir holds approximately 3/4 of a pint of lubricant. Excess lubricant will leak from the front of the apron.

---------------
Thanks for the information and link to the Grizzly manual. Without knowing better, 3/4 pint sounds low and doesn't pass a smell test. I'm sure I put more than that in the apron, so that explains why it was leaking. Thanks again for the response.

Regards,
Terry
 

woodchucker

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#7
I would not use way oil . Use the recommended 30wt non deteregent. It's readily avail at an auto parts and will do what the manufacturer required. if the gasket does not work, figure out if the shaft is worn, or the bore. I would think the bore.
It may be possible to re-sleave it with a new bearing surface. if not and it is the shaft, consider cutting a recess for an o ring
 

tjb

Terry
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#8
I would not use way oil . Use the recommended 30wt non deteregent. It's readily avail at an auto parts and will do what the manufacturer required. if the gasket does not work, figure out if the shaft is worn, or the bore. I would think the bore.
It may be possible to re-sleave it with a new bearing surface. if not and it is the shaft, consider cutting a recess for an o ring
Thanks for the info.

I've been down to the shop this morning, and on first examination, it looks like the gasket is going to work. I cleaned all surfaces thoroughly with brake cleaner before installing gasket, and used high quality RTV on all surfaces (same stuff I use on intake manifolds).

We'll see how that works. Thanks again for responding.
 

george wilson

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#9
I doubt that yu can EVER stop a lathe from leaking some oil. My 1964 Hardinge leaks oil. I took the large handwheel off of it and carefully cut a half round U groove around the bearing surface(where it contacts the carriage. Then,I added an "O" ring and put the hand wheel on again. THat worked till the O ring got flattened a bit from being under pressure. My carriage says to use Automatic Transmission fluid,which is thin. DON'T USE THAT IN YOUR LATHE. That is ONLY for the Hardinge.

What I need to do is drill and tap a hole in the end of the shaft that the hand wheel runs in. Then,make a nicely made large washer that can gently press the handwheel's O ring against the carriage. Then,when needed,tighten the washer till it stops leaking. Eventually,add a new O ring.

Forget it about trying to get an Asian made lathe from leaking. I've never seen a NEW one that would not leak out of the gear head. And,I have had 3 new ones,being the toolmaker in the museum in Williamsburg. Those,plus a new Grizzly 16" for home shop. I use the Hardinge for everything except large size jobs. It is so smooth,and wonderful to operate! My Grizzly is perfectly accurate,but a gear head just on't deliver the super fine finishes that a belt lathe with class 9 bearings will! Oh,my Jet 1024 years ago would deliver very nice finishes,too. But,everyone is gear head happy these days. Unless you have a TRULY GREAT lathe ,like a Dean,Smith,and Grace,you'll always see echoes of the gear drive on your turnings. But,an English gear drive DSG cost more than your house when new. I ran an OLD one a few years ago,to see how accurate it still was on a 36" steel bar. NO GEAR ECHOES AT ALL. But,I could not determine how worn the bed was as the lathe was sitting on a heavy pallet,and not leveled.

Google "Tony Lathes" to see Tony Griffiths HUGE site about all kinds of machines. Plus,he does a GREAT job of reproducing long obsolete machine manuals,for about $125.00. I visited him years ago near Sheffield. Great guy!
 

tjb

Terry
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#10
Thanks for that info, George. I'm coming to realize you're right: ALL lathes seem to leak to some degree. In addition to the Kin Shin, I have an older model Harrison M300. That one leaks as well. After the modifications I made on the Kin Shin, neither is intolerable, so I'll just deal with it. A friend of mine suggested that small leaks like that are good ways to make sure you always have clean oil in them. Guess you have to look at the bright side occasionally.

Regards

P.S.: The Kin Shin really is a great little machine, in spite of the leak.
 
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