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Ordered An Ellis 1600 Need Blade Recommenations.

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PaPa_Jack

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#1
Just ordered an Ellis 1600. I do a lot of hobby fabrication. Everything from E-wheels to tractor implements and building a portable sawmill. Mostly cutting cold rolled structural steel. In the past did most of my cutting with a torch and then a side grinder to clean it up. Got tired of all the grinding so bought this saw. Now I need advice on what blades to use. I know I need good bimetal blades, but not sure on TPI.

Jack
 

dlane

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#2
I use 10-14 variable pitch bimetal blades on my Doall vertical band saw , the tpi will depend on what your cutting , recommended 2-3 teeth per thickness of material
 

Stonebriar

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#3
Mr Lane is spot on. Congratulations on your purchase of a great saw. You will love it.
 

sanddan

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#4
I use a 10-14 variable pitch bimetal blade on my horizontal saw as I cut a lot of .120" wall tubing. One blade with coarser teeth would be nice for cutting solid stock.

That Ellis is quite the saw.
 

JW turner

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#5
My brother and I farm and we build and repair a lot of things. We also have the Ellis 1600. We use 5/7 vari tooth gp blades from Ellis. We cut anything from 1/4" to 6" solid rod and any shape tube up to 10" with varying wall thicknesses 1/8" - 1/2". You just have to control the downfeed in the thin stuff.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
 

PaPa_Jack

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#6
Well, I went and picked up my 1600 at the trucking terminal today. My first impression was amazement at the way it was crated up. I think you could drop it off the back of the truck at 60mph and not hurt it. :) Once it was home and unpacked, I read the manual and watched the videos, again. Simple setup. It comes with Ellis's GP blade installed. I think it's a 5/7 TPI. I had a piece of 3" round stock here so I set it up to cut as slowly as possible, as per instructions. It went through it like a hot knife through butter. The finish on the cuts was gorgeous. Even my son was impressed with the quality of fit and finish. This is truly one fine piece of American workmanship.
 

Billh51

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#7
Your going to love that saw. I used to have the same one in my shop at work and wish I had one in my home shop. The way the head swings for angled cuts is quick and easy, a very nice feature. I used Lennox bi-metal blades and found them to work flawlessly for me. We cut a lot of angle and flats, 1/4" and up, so a 4/7 combination blade worked well for most of that. When cutting tubing or thinner metal, I used a 10-14 combination blade. Hope this helps your blade selection. Bill
 

firestopper

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#8
I have the Ellis 1800 and have used a variety of blades. I cut many different profiles and thickness and have found the Ellis GP (general purpose) blade to work the best so far.
I recently purchased two blades on eBay: Band Saw Blades Cobra Bahco 11' \ 1x.035x5/8 3851-27-0.9 5/8 The information found on this blade claims no blade change for non ferrous to light steel tube to heavy profiles. One blade does it all....We shall see. I wanted to see if everything they claim them to be is true or close, plus I got a pretty good deal. If the blade pans out I will be ordering a 100' coil of 1/2" 0r 5/8" for the vertical band saw.
 

projectnut

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#9
I've used the Ellis general purpose bi metal blades on my Startrite bandsaw for many years. I generally use the 10 - 14 or 8 - 12 variable tooth style. I would guess the saw gets used between 10 and 15 hours per month. At the current use rate the blades around 2 years if I don't abuse them. I prefer the 10 - 14 tooth blades, but they are slower if you have large stock to cut.
 

PaPa_Jack

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#10
Well, I have had my saw for a couple months now and have a question.

I am on my second blade and it needs replaced already. I started out with the general purpose that came on the saw.
I was careful to check over all the tolerances and clearances as instructed in the manuals. My son and I cut a lot of 1.25 x1.25 tubing
with it over one weekend. Wall thickness is .125. All of a sudden the saw began bouncing badly. When we checked the blade,
about and inch and a half of the blade had no teeth. I installed one of the 10/14 blades I had ordered with the saw.
That blade has lasted until tonight. Again, the saw was cutting some flat stock, 1/4 x 2. All of a sudden the saw began bouncing badly.
Inspection found two places where an inch of teeth are totally missing. No idea why. Any suggestions? Both of the blades were broken in
as instructed and we do not run the saw with heavy pressure. It is also set on medium speed. HELP!!! This is getting expensive.
 

JimDawson

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#11
My Wells is about the same size as your Ellis. I use a 12 tooth, M42 cobalt, bimetal blade. When I bought the saw about 3 years ago I also bought 2 blades. I still have the second blade on the shelf. It has cut a lot of material from thin wall tube to heavy chunks of tool steel and aluminum bar. I have never used coolant except for an occasional squirt of WD-40 on thick aluminum sections.

When cutting the thin section material I use a very light feed, much slower than it could cut. When cutting flat bar, I lay it flat or set it at a slight angle off of flat by putting a small chunk of round stock under the fixed jaw side of the piece. I would never cut a thin flat bar with it standing up in the vice. I cut round bar at a slower feed than flat bar.

I suspect that you are feeding too fast in the thinner material.
.
.
 

firestopper

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#12
Like Jim mentioned, check your feed rate as well as your speed. I would set the step pulley to a slower blade speed as well . I have used some paraffin for lube but mostly cut dry. I also break-in a new blade by cutting with a very slow feed rate for the first 10 or so cuts.
I have had GP blades last for months and hundreds of cuts. I run into trouble when cutting round stock tube as a slight slip results in tooth breakage. The cam lock vise is the Achilles tendon of the entire saw. This type of vise requires too much maintenance for proper work holding and I use two of these vices 100% of the time when cutting at 0º.
I will eventually go with screw type vise to eliminate the slip issue. I would not hesitate buying another Ellis saw again. Unlike Jim, I set up flat bar stock on edge and get straight cuts with minimal tooth contact. Make sure your roller guides (forward adjustable) are no more than 2" from material when cutting.
Its a learning curve, but in the end you'll get to know your saw. One more thing, when cutting angles especially in square tube, use a C-clamp along with the cam vise as the blade tries to "pull" the stock, again the cam lock vise fails to hold properly over time.
 

PaPa_Jack

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#13
You would think that by age 67 I would know better, but, Live and Learn.

Since I got the Ellis, I have cut a lot of rather small stock except for breaking in the blades as they describe in the manual. For that I was using a 3 inch round of 4140 I've had laying around forever. I would set the pulleys at slowest speed and very low feed and let it do it's thing while I was busy doing other things. Same has been true with the smaller stock, set it up, fire up the saw and go about my business. Tonight I put on another Starrett 10/14 blade and decide I was going to sit there and watch the saw run. All of a sudden I noticed the motor bouncing. I shut the saw down and checked it out. The four bolts that hold the motor down to the reducer were about to fall out. I think my blade issues were cause by the motor bouncing and really causing the blade to bounce in the cut. Not good with thinner stock. After getting everything tightened up really well it ran so quiet I could not hear it from the other end of my workshop. I'll keep you posted if I have any other issues.
 

Alan H

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#14
You would think that by age 67 I would know better, but, Live and Learn.

Since I got the Ellis, I have cut a lot of rather small stock except for breaking in the blades as they describe in the manual. For that I was using a 3 inch round of 4140 I've had laying around forever. I would set the pulleys at slowest speed and very low feed and let it do it's thing while I was busy doing other things. Same has been true with the smaller stock, set it up, fire up the saw and go about my business. Tonight I put on another Starrett 10/14 blade and decide I was going to sit there and watch the saw run. All of a sudden I noticed the motor bouncing. I shut the saw down and checked it out. The four bolts that hold the motor down to the reducer were about to fall out. I think my blade issues were cause by the motor bouncing and really causing the blade to bounce in the cut. Not good with thinner stock. After getting everything tightened up really well it ran so quiet I could not hear it from the other end of my workshop. I'll keep you posted if I have any other issues.
Jack, how is it going now? Just got an Ellis and looking for insights.
 

PaPa_Jack

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#15
Jack, how is it going now? Just got an Ellis and looking for insights.
Sorry for the delay in answering. Been having health issues and not doing much until recently.

I bought the Ells because my (very) old Harbor Freight would not cut a straight edge no matter what I did. I have the 1600 and loved it at first. My real problem is blade wear. I have been through 6 blades in less than a year. I have tried everything I can think of but every once in a while the saw will suddenly "jump" and you can kiss that blade goodbye. I don't know what to do. I do not cut any heavy metal with it. The biggest I can remember was 1/4" x 6' wide. I have tried Starrett, Ellis and Lennox. All bi-metal . I've tried 4-6 tooth, as per Ellis, I've tried 10/14 tooth blades and always the same thing. I've tried every speed and feed combination I can think of. Nothing seems to matter. Early I did find that the motor anchor bolts were real loose. I though t tightening them would solve the issue but it hasn't. I just don't know what to try next.

I am a hobbyist. This is not being used in a commercial shop. Most of you probably use your saw more in a month than I do in a year.

This is strange, but I came on this site tonight to see what I could find about blades. I just ruined my last one tonight cutting a piece of 1/8" wall 1 x 1 square stock.
 

Alan H

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#16
Jack, do you have the spring counter balance and resultant downward head pressure set properly? They have that spec on the head being mostly balanced by the springs but leaving an 8 pound down force an inch before it shuts off. Mine was set way too light from the factory.
 

PaPa_Jack

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#17
I checked that with a scale, and it was just a little light. I experimented with it a little, but it's hard to get a real accurate reading with the scale I have available. I think it is just about right at 8 pounds though.
 

Alan H

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#18
Per Paco's advice, I have been using mine on slow speed only. I cut several pieces of 4" pipe today with very good results. But I certainly haven't given the saw a real workout yet.

Here's the finish it produces on a cut.
pipe cut.jpg
 

PaPa_Jack

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#19
The cuts are always perfect. IF I can figure out why I'm having issues with blades, it'll be perfect overall.

Like the Festool. I use mine on my router table.
 

RandyM

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#20
Jack,

Have you tried calling the Ellis directly? I have found they are very helpful.
 

PaPa_Jack

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#21
I've ordered a couple new blades from BandsawBlades Direct. I was also talking to a gentleman in a local shop that has two older Ellis saws. He also brought up the suggestion to check the downward pressure. I have checked it several times over the last year but decided to give it a check again. I checked the weight, and it showed about 8 pounds. However I borrowed a much better and more accurate scale. Mine is a pretty good fishing scale that I rigged up from a step ladder so that I could hang it in direct line with the saw head. Just out of curiosity, I tied the two scales together on the workbench so that they would pull against one another. I put a pulley over the end of the bench and hung a 10 pound weight on it. The other end was anchored to my bench vise so it was rock solid. The borrowed scale showed exactly 10 pounds. The fishing scale showed 7 pounds. Then I used a ratchet strap to pull the tension on the good scale to 8 pounds and my old fishing scale was only reading about 4.5 pounds. Sooooooooo, it appears that I have been running the 1600 far too light. I have adjusted it to just a hair over 8 pounds now so we will see how the new blades work out. They should be here today. Thanks for the help. Another reminder that quality tools do make a difference.
 

Dabbler

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#22
I go to a lot of garage sales and whenever I can, buy the cast iron barbell weights. It's easy to make a balance scale from one of those and some bar stock. Just cut down a 10 lb weight to 8lb, and voila! I don't have one of those because I use an accurate scale for my Emmerson saw - set to 10lb down force.
 

pgk

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#23
Hey Papa_Jack,
How is your Ellis working since you adjusted the head pressure? :)

Pete
 

PaPa_Jack

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#24
Hey Papa_Jack,
How is your Ellis working since you adjusted the head pressure? :)

Pete
Still not as good as I expected. I replaced the blade and within a week it had a one inch bad spot in it. Due to some medical issues I have not been able to follow up on it though.
 

pgk

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#25
Still not as good as I expected. I replaced the blade and within a week it had a one inch bad spot in it. Due to some medical issues I have not been able to follow up on it though.
Sorry to hear about your health problems, get those ironed out first! :) I would call Ellis at this point I'm sure they could steer you in the right direction. I'm anxious see what you find out.. Get well soon...

Pete
 

dlane

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#26
Only thing I can think of striping teeth is less than two teeth on stock at some point, after the first one goes a bunch get striped. dose it happen when finishing cut , starting , half way thru ?
Wonder if it's the material has hard spots in it.
I don't have an Ellis but on my rong fu horizontal saw I tighten the blade as tight as I can with the cheesy plastic wheel , if I don't abuse the blade it lasts a long time 6months, that saw has cut miles of material, still going strong.
 

Alan H

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#27
Still not as good as I expected. I replaced the blade and within a week it had a one inch bad spot in it. Due to some medical issues I have not been able to follow up on it though.
Jack, As I mentioned earlier in this thread I have an Ellis and have had no problems. I am wondering what setting you use on the hydraulic cylinder metering valve when cutting. I run my saw in the low or middle speed range and set the metering valve between 1 and 2. (0 is closed) This controls the speed of the drop and of course this works in unison with the spring tension setting discussed in this thread.

You mention your saw jumping, I think that may be an indication of too high of a feed rate (set with the metering valve).
 

Silverbullet

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#28
It has to be feeding to fast to grab and strip teeth out. Slow the down feed . Or the hydraulic feed pistons bad????
 

firestopper

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#29
In addition to feed and speed, make sure your blade guide bearings are adjusted properly using a feeler gauge. The only time I strip teeth is on round material due to material slippage. That said, I upgraded the vice to a screw type and use a modified section of angle iron like a V-block.

Troubleshooting Crooked Cuts

  1. Check blade for worn or broken teeth and replace if needed.

  2. Check to make sure that the number of teeth per inch on the blade fit the application. As a rule, only 6 to 12 teeth should be in contact with the workpiece.

  3. Check the head pressure on the saw. The compensating spring tension should be 8 pounds with the blade 1" above the table, coming down with the hydraulic valve open.

  4. Check the blade tension. Review the proper blade tension procedure under “Removing and Replacing Blade” on page 5, item 10.

  5. Check the space between bearings of both guide bearing assemblies. It should be only .001" over the thickness of a
new blade. As an example, a .033" feeler gauge would be used to set the guides for a .032" thick blade.

6. Check the blade tracking on the idler and drive wheels. 9" solid wheels: blade in center of wheels

12" spoked wheels: 3/4" wide blade should have teeth protruding from the side of the wheel about 1/8", and the 1" wide blade about 1/4".

14" spoked wheels: 1" and 1-1/4" wide blades should have teeth protruding 1/4" to 5/16" from side of wheel.

7. Check to make sure that the blade guide assemblies are not too far apart. Set the idler blade guide closer to the work to provide greater support for the blade.

Manual:
http://www.ellissaw.com/wp-content/uploads/parts_catalog_2h_Pages2b_c-11.pdf
 

Cheeseking

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#30
Hope Im not going afoul of site rules by mentioning it (im no way connected with them) but the one time I ever bought replacement blade for my saw it was online from a place called sawblade dot com They had great prices and made me the blades in the odd ball size I needed. I don't have a blade welder and the usual catalog houses don't carry the size I need. Bought several different TPI's in case but been using the same 8/10 for a couple years now. Boy what a difference new blade makes. Never realized how bad it was cutting (rubbing) until I put a sharp one on!
 
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