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Our Saw Cuts Crooked

Discussion in 'HORIZONTAL SAWS & BANDSAWS' started by gapi, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. We cannot figure it out. We put in a new blade and guide bearings and she still cuts crooked.
    The pivot shaft and bores are fine.
    Please educate me on getting this to cut straight? Including operator errors and such?

    Thanks

    saw01.jpg saw02.jpg
     
  2. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I would take a square to it, check vice fixed jaw is square to blade, check blade is square to base,
    is blade tight enough, guide bearings adjusted correctly,
    Has it ever cut straight ?
     
    BGHansen likes this.
  3. mzayd3

    mzayd3 Active User Active Member

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    Adjust the jaws to the angle needed to cut straight. Lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. mikey

    mikey Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    brino likes this.
  5. RJSakowski

    RJSakowski H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Are you talking about cutting at a vertical angle? What worked for me was to adjust the roller guides. The natural tendency of a horizontal band saw is to cut at an angle. Loose guides will allow a bit of bias to influence the cut.
     
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  6. TOOLMASTER

    TOOLMASTER you don't want to know Active Member

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    feed slower
     
  7. pineyfolks

    pineyfolks Active User Active Member

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    Teeth per inch can cause issues too. Make sure you have at least 3 blade teeth in contact with the material you're cutting. A coarse blade and thin material don't mix well. Check the blade to make sure the teeth are not running through the guides. If they are it will take the set out of them and cause it to cut crooked.
     
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  8. Ulma Doctor

    Ulma Doctor Infinitely Curious Active Member

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    by the looks of the second picture the clamp arrangement is not perpendicular to the blade.
    put a small try square in the clamp horizontally with a side to the blade.
    then use the square to adjust the clamp until perpendicular and lock the clamps down.
    make reference marks afterwards to repeat the 90* if you should need to move the clamps for miter work.
     
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  9. Billh50

    Billh50 Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If guides are good and pivot is good. Then
    1) square solid jaw to blade
    2) check vertical alignment of blade and adjust guides as necessary.
    3) Try a slower down feed
     
    BGHansen likes this.
  10. Thanks Guys,

    Yes it has cut straight.

    Standing in front of the saw where the piece cut off would hit your toes, the cut starting from the top goes to the rear. The side to side is square. I did square up the clamps.
    I'll do some slower feeding tomorrow.
    I replaced the bearings trying to correct this. The outside bearing on each side are elliptically adjustable and I got them set so you have to get the blade aligned pretty good before it will go between them.

    I'll be back.
     
    brino likes this.
  11. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    If all else is good , can't think of anything other than the blade lost the set on one side 1-2 teeth is all it would take to not cut square. Are you useing name brand blades , new dosn't always mean good
     
  12. MSD0

    MSD0 United States Active Member Active Member

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    Have you checked the blade tension?
     
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  13. ezduzit

    ezduzit United States Active User Active Member

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    I have virtually the same Vectrax saw, but with a mitering head. The guide roller parts are machined very sloppy. But, once it is set correctly, produces a beautiful, straight cut that looks like it was machined.

    It looks like you are using an unnecessarily narrow blade.
     
  14. I think you are right. I don't have the book on the saw but I took her apart again yesterday and the teeth just touch the side bearings when I try to get the top edge of the blade close to the top roller bearing. So I will go up a size.

    What I found is the ways that hold the blade guides are wider than the guides. They can shift or tilt if they take a hit. I am new to this saw setup thing so tell me if its for a reason? See between the arrows below.

    So, I left them a little loose and eyeballed them to match each other with the blade looking 90┬░to the table and locked them down. Its cuts MUCH better. A little tapping with a hammer with these and then locking them down is how I did it.

    The outside bearing shafts are elliptical and I dialed them in to take the blade install only if you have the blade just right to slip in.

    Before all this the cut would end up almost 1/2" inwards from where it started at the top.
    One of my co-workers must have hit them inserting a piece into the vice.

    Should the ways fit the guides better?


    way_width_play.jpg


    way_width_play01.jpg
     
  15. gerritv22

    gerritv22 Active User Registered Member

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    The 'slop' is there to help you adjust the guides so the blade cuts vertically.
    The adjustments interact somewhat, e.g. the gap between bearings should be 0.002-3 bigger than blade thickness.
    Then adjust blade vertical at both guides, check with test cuts in hardwood.
    Then adjust vise perpendicular to blade.

    There are further details in the document referred to earlier in the thread.

    Better, i.e. machined instead of stamped, washer under those SHCS might help prevent movement in future. If the threads in casting are stripped you should be able to go up one size.
     
  16. tertiaryjim

    tertiaryjim Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The guides should be set closer than "eyeball".
    Use a square and light behind it to get them as close to vertical as possible.
    The vice should also be set by squaring it to the blade. Some vices have a removable dowel at that position but they often are abused and unusable.
    If its moved to cut a angle, use the square to reset it so it doesn't mess others up.
    This is a standard shop practice which everyone should learn. Yea, there's always one or two who don't care and trying to educate an entire shop seems impossible.
    There should be a roller in each guide to keep the blade from rising vertically when cutting.
    These aren't cam'd . If they have a groove cut in them the blade can sit high.
    If the blade sits offset from the bearing center, not likely, you might just turn them around. Otherwise replace them.

    It's always good to see someone who wants to care for and adjust the equipment.
    Jim
     
  17. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    When I adjust the cam rollers to the blade, I do the adjustment with the blade off of the wheels. I make them just snug enough that you can barely pull the blade thru by hand with the roller held stationary.
     
  18. kwoodhands

    kwoodhands United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have a 15 year old 4 x 6 saw that Took a lot of work to get it to cut square. After adjusting the roller guides as much as possible and still off 1/4" in 5" of height ,I decided to check out the pivot itself. I found the casting was rough , I loosened the bolt and shimmed it.Now I got within 1/16" which would have been enough if I could get it on the money by adjusting the roller guides.I had run out of play with that adjustment so I removed the saw from the pivot. I then placed the pivot casting on the mill. I removed about 1/4" to 0" where the saw meets the casting . Reinstalled everything and now had room to adjust the guides.
    The saw cuts square. Once in a while it needs readjusting , simple turn of the roller guides with an 18" adjustable wrench. If I knew the problem right away this would have been a 3 hr job. Took me more like 4 days.Mostly trying to figure out what was wrong.
    mike
     
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  19. Dabbler

    Dabbler H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Most saws have an elliptical adjustment on the pivot toe help with blade tracking. Adjusting it so it will cut outwards, not inwards may help. One other possible source is that the blade is duller on one side I once fixed my saw by putting in a new blade...
     
  20. john11139

    john11139 United States Iron Registered Member

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    I have almost the same saw. When I lay a square (standing up) on the clamping area and then raise the saw, it gradually pivots away from a vertical line and when fully raises to cut a 6" is tilts about 1/4" (the arc) I have done all kinds playing with it, new blade, rollers bearings. Finally determined that it is in the pivot and there is no way to adjust that. It was probably cast crooked. Any suggestions.
     
  21. ezduzit

    ezduzit United States Active User Active Member

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    Then adjust the table and fence square to the pivot.
     
  22. bss1

    bss1 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I had the same problem with my 5X6. I got it close by adjusting the guides but the head of the saw moved from outside to in on the pivot. I fixed it by selling the saw and buying an Ellis 1600 . Seriously though I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I liked the little saw a lot and had a hard time parting with as well as the additional $, but I'm much happier now with straight cuts.
     
  23. markba633csi

    markba633csi United States Active Member Active Member

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    I've been rebuilding an older Taiwan 4x6 for several months; just started making test cuts yesterday. They seem to be very sensitive to errors and play in the main pivot. The tension spring magnifies any error as well making it difficult to cut straight from top to bottom (perpendicular to the table). I'm planning some rework on the pivot assembly and replacing the spring with a hydraulic cylinder-should help considerably.
    Mark S.
     
  24. Downwindtracker2

    Downwindtracker2 Canada Active User Active Member

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    With the one at work, a new blade and careful adjustment of the hydraulic down feed. You have to allow the blade to work. I'm hoping to get a square cut from an old 4x6 that I bought well used, so thanks for some ideas. As it is every time I go to use it, I end up fixing something.
     
  25. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

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    I think that saw takes 3/4" blades , the one on there doesn't look wide enough to ride where it's supposed to. That would knock the set right out of a new blade.
     
  26. BGHansen

    BGHansen United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Can you swap the roller guides between the inside and outside? If the cut is angled the opposite direction it'd be in the roller guides. Kinda like having a pull on a car to the left. Swap the front tires side to side and if it pulls to the right, it's in the tires.

    Bruce
     

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